Legislature(2009 - 2010)BUTROVICH 205

03/25/2010 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES


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03:37:50 PM Start
03:39:04 PM Cook Inlet Natural Gas: the Way Forward
04:17:51 PM SB294
04:22:54 PM SB275
04:45:38 PM SR10
04:50:43 PM SB143
05:28:57 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
Cook Inlet Natural Gas: The Way Forward
+= SR 10 DOMESTIC NATURAL GAS & ALT. ENERGY TELECONFERENCED
Moved SR 10 Out of Committee
+= SB 143 RAILBELT ENERGY & TRANSMISSION CORP. TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
= SB 275 AQUATIC FARMING
Heard & Held
= SB 294 SPORT FISH GUIDE LICENSES
Moved SB 294 Out of Committee
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
              SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                         March 25, 2010                                                                                         
                           3:37 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Lesil McGuire, Co-Chair                                                                                                 
Senator Bill Wielechowski, Co-Chair                                                                                             
Senator Charlie Huggins, Vice Chair                                                                                             
Senator Hollis French                                                                                                           
Senator Gary Stevens                                                                                                            
Senator Thomas Wagoner                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bert Stedman                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
PRESENTATION: COOK INLET NATURAL GAS: THE WAY FORWARD                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 275                                                                                                             
"An Act  relating to aquatic farming  and to payment made  to the                                                               
Department of  Fish and Game for  the removal of wild  stock of a                                                               
shellfish  species  that  exceeds an  insignificant  amount;  and                                                               
providing for an effective date."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATE RESOLUTION NO. 10                                                                                                        
Supporting  expansion of  the  use of  domestic  natural gas  and                                                               
alternative  energies and  urging agencies  to use  vehicles that                                                               
run on compressed natural gas.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED SR 10 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 143                                                                                                             
"An   Act   establishing   the  Greater   Railbelt   Energy   and                                                               
Transmission  Corporation   and  relating  to   the  corporation;                                                               
relating   to   transition,   financial   plan,   and   reporting                                                               
requirements   regarding  planning   for  the   initial  business                                                               
operations  of  the  Greater  Railbelt  Energy  and  Transmission                                                               
Corporation; relating  to a report  on legislation  regarding the                                                               
Regulatory Commission  of Alaska and the  Greater Railbelt Energy                                                               
and  Transmission  Corporation;  authorizing  the  Alaska  Energy                                                               
Authority to  convey the Bradley  Lake Hydroelectric  Project and                                                               
the  Alaska   Intertie  to  the   Greater  Railbelt   Energy  and                                                               
Transmission Corporation; and providing for an effective date."                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 294                                                                                                             
"An Act repealing the termination date of the licensing of sport                                                                
fishing operators and sport fishing guides; and providing for an                                                                
effective date."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED SB 294 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
 PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB 275                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: AQUATIC FARMING                                                                                                    
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) MCGUIRE                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
02/10/10       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
02/10/10       (S)       RES, FIN                                                                                               
03/24/10       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
03/24/10       (S)       Scheduled But Not Heard                                                                                
03/25/10       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SR  10                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: DOMESTIC NATURAL GAS & ALT. ENERGY                                                                                 
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) WAGONER                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
02/22/10       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
02/22/10       (S)       RES                                                                                                    
03/22/10       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
03/22/10       (S)       Scheduled But Not Heard                                                                                
03/25/10       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB 143                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: RAILBELT ENERGY & TRANSMISSION CORP.                                                                               
SPONSOR(s): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
03/09/09       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
03/09/09       (S)       ENE, RES, FIN                                                                                          
03/19/09       (S)       ENE AT 11:00 AM BUTROVICH 205                                                                          
03/19/09       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/19/09       (S)       MINUTE(ENE)                                                                                            
04/06/09       (S)       ENE AT 5:00 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
04/06/09       (S)       OPPOSE UN DESIGNATION OF ARCTIC OCEAN                                                                  
04/09/09       (S)       ENE AT 2:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
04/09/09       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
04/09/09       (S)       MINUTE(ENE)                                                                                            
03/17/10       (S)       ENE AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
03/17/10       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/17/10       (S)       MINUTE(ENE)                                                                                            
03/22/10       (S)       ENE REFERRAL WAIVED                                                                                    
03/24/10       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
03/24/10       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/24/10       (S)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
03/25/10       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB 294                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: SPORT FISH GUIDE LICENSES                                                                                          
SPONSOR(s): MCGUIRE                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
02/24/10       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
02/24/10       (S)       RES, FIN                                                                                               
03/18/10       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
03/18/10       (S)       Scheduled But Not Heard                                                                                
03/22/10       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
03/22/10       (S)       Scheduled But Not Heard                                                                                
03/24/10       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
03/24/10       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/24/10       (S)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
03/25/10       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
COLLEEN STARRING, president                                                                                                     
ENSTAR Natural Gas Co                                                                                                           
Anchorage, AK                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT: Presenter on Cook Inlet Gas.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TOM WALSH                                                                                                                       
Petrotechnical Resources Alaska (PRA)                                                                                           
Anchorage, AK                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT: Presenter on Cook Inlet Gas.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MICHAEL PAWLOWSKI                                                                                                               
Aide to Senator McGuire                                                                                                         
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, AK                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented SB 294 for the sponsor.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
JENNIFER YUHAS, legislative liaison                                                                                             
Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G)                                                                                      
Juneau, AK                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided information for SB 294.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
ESTHER CHA                                                                                                                      
Aide to Senator McGuire                                                                                                         
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, AK                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented SB 275 for the sponsor.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
PAUL FUHS                                                                                                                       
Sea Farms Alaska                                                                                                                
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 275.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
RODGER PAINTER, president                                                                                                       
Alaskan Shellfish Growers Association (ASGA)                                                                                    
Juneau, AK                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 275.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MARK VINCEL, executive director                                                                                                 
United Fisherman of Alaska (UFA)                                                                                                
Juneau, AK                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SB 275.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
AMY SEITZ                                                                                                                       
Aide to Senator Wagoner                                                                                                         
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, AK                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented SR 10 for the sponsor.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REBECCA LOGAN                                                                                                                   
Chairman of board, Chugach Electric                                                                                             
Chairman, Railbelt Utilty Task Force                                                                                            
Anchorage, AK                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 143.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MARK JOHNSON, general counsel                                                                                                   
Chugach Electric                                                                                                                
Anchorage, AK                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 143.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
PHILLIP OATES, city manager                                                                                                     
City of Seward                                                                                                                  
Seward, AK                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 143.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
BRAD JANORSCHKE, general manager                                                                                                
Homer Electric Association                                                                                                      
Homer, AK                                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 143; requested                                                                 
that authority for oil and gas leases remain in the legislation.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
PETER BRUSHELL, director                                                                                                        
Matanuska Electric Association (MEA)                                                                                            
Palmer, AK                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 143.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CAITLYN HIGGENS, executive director                                                                                             
Alaska Conservation Alliance (ACA)                                                                                              
Anchorage, AK                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT: To support SB 143, ACA encourages financial                                                               
and regulatory oversight, public input and energy efficiency.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
RICK SHIKORA, treasurer                                                                                                         
Golden Valley Electric Association                                                                                              
Fairbanks, AK                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 143.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
RICH WILSON                                                                                                                     
Alaska Rate Payers                                                                                                              
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 143.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
TOM LAKOSH                                                                                                                      
Representing himself                                                                                                            
Anchorage, AK                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT: Expressed concerns related to SB 143.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
3:37:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  LESIL  MCGUIRE  called the  Senate  Resources  Standing                                                             
Committee meeting  to order at 3:37  p.m. Present at the  call to                                                               
order were  Senators Stevens,  French, Wagoner,  Wielechowski and                                                               
McGuire.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
^Cook Inlet Natural Gas: The Way Forward                                                                                        
            Cook Inlet Natural Gas: The Way Forward                                                                         
                                                                                                                              
3:39:04 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR MCGUIRE  announced the first  order of business  to come                                                               
before the committee  to be a presentation on  Cook Inlet Natural                                                               
Gas.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
COLLEEN STARRING,  president, ENSTAR  Natural Gas  Co, Anchorage,                                                               
said  Tom  Walsh,  consultant,  Petrotechnical  Resources  Alaska                                                               
(PRA) conducted a study at  Chugach Electric, Anchorage Municipal                                                               
Light  and Power  (ML&P) and  ENSTAR's request.  He was  asked to                                                               
take the  Department of Natural  Resources' (DNR) recent  study a                                                               
step further and  consider what activity is needed to  be able to                                                               
produce gas from the reserves.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
TOM  WALSH,  Petrotechnical  Resources Alaska  (PRA),  Anchorage,                                                               
said that  contracts drive  natural gas  activity in  Cook Inlet.                                                               
ENSTAR has 100  percent of their need met through  2010 but has a                                                               
shortage coming.  Chugach is  good through 2011  and ML&P  is set                                                               
with their investment in Beluga  through 2015. Beginning in 2011,                                                               
a significant  gap in contract  versus demand for Cook  Inlet gas                                                               
develops.  The lack  of contracts  going  forward acts  as a  de-                                                               
motivator for drilling new wells.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
He explained  that PRA's study  aimed to review the  DNR reserves                                                               
analysis and the  deliverability of Cook Inlet  gas wells drilled                                                               
in the past  ten years and to forecast what  can be expected from                                                               
future drilling activity. The study  also considered when natural                                                               
gas will  have to be  imported into Cook  Inlet. The PRA  and DNR                                                               
studies  both show  a significant  decline in  future production.                                                               
Between  2001 and  2009,  128  wells were  drilled  which had  an                                                               
initial average production  rate of 3.6 million  cubic feet (mcf)                                                               
per day. Between 2007 and 2009 this lowered to 3.1 mcf per day.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:43:19 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. WALSH showed a slide to  illustrate the downward trend in the                                                               
reserves found per  well drilled from 2001-2009. The  PRA and DNR                                                               
studies both  conclude, from decline curve  analysis, that supply                                                               
will not meet  demand by 2013 if drilling does  not continue. The                                                               
PRA study  further examined the  commercial activity  required to                                                               
provide  the supply  needed  to meet  demand.  He showed  another                                                               
slide  and  explained that  the  demand  curve includes  the  LNG                                                               
export through  2011, but  assumes LNG  export is  then curtailed                                                               
when the export license is terminated.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI  asked  how  confident Mr.  Walsh  is  that                                                               
Conoco  Philips is  not going  to apply  for a  renewal of  their                                                               
export license.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. WALSH  replied that  he is  not certain  at all.  However, he                                                               
does not know where the gas  would come from. A slide illustrated                                                               
the crossover  of the supply  and demand  curves in 2012  or 2013                                                               
when supply begins to be greater than demand.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:46:12 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. WALSH continued  and explained that if  drilling continues at                                                               
the current pace  of the last 2  years, 13 to 14  wells per year,                                                               
supply will meet demand until 2018.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WAGONER referred to a  graph in the presentation and said                                                               
he does not understand how  the "reduction line" keeps going down                                                               
so   quickly.  If   [Conoco   Philips   ceased  LNG   production]                                                               
approximately 100 mcf  per day, additional, will be  put into the                                                               
marketplace.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  WALSH   responded  that  without  a   tremendous  amount  of                                                               
activity, the utility  demand will not be met, let  alone the LNG                                                               
demand. LNG  is represented in  the graph  as the drop  in demand                                                               
between  2010 and  2011 from  approximately 125  bcf to  about 90                                                               
bcf.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WAGONER said Mr. Walsh is  assuming that LNG goes away in                                                               
2011.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. WALSH agreed.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WAGONER  said if  the wells continue  to produce  the gas                                                               
that  goes to  the  plant, but  [Conoco  Philips LNG  production]                                                               
stops, 90-100 mcf of gas is no longer used by the LNG plant.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  WALSH said  that  in 2009,  36 bcf  was  represented as  LNG                                                               
export.  Without that,  the number  goes from  126 to  90 bcf  in                                                               
2009. He noted that the LNG  plant is capable of exporting a much                                                               
larger number  but there has not  been the gas to  export. It was                                                               
down to 36 bcf  in 2009 and the assumption is it  goes to zero in                                                               
2011.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WAGONER said he does not think that is going to happen.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:49:20 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR MCGUIRE  said Conoco Philips  will be present  on Friday                                                               
to look at the issue of the export license.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. WALSH said if Conoco Philip's  export does not cease in 2011,                                                               
the gap between supply and demand  would occur earlier in 2010 or                                                               
2011. He  reiterated that both  PRA's and DNR's  studies conclude                                                               
that supply will not meet demand  starting in 2013. He noted that                                                               
at a  rate of  13.6 wells per  year, there will  be 136  wells in                                                               
2019.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH  clarified that supply  is ok until 2018  if wells                                                               
keep  getting  drilled. A  graph  that  depicted supply  dropping                                                               
significantly beneath demand assumes no future drilling.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. WALSH agreed.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH  asked if  there is any  reason why  a significant                                                               
amount of drilling would not take place between now and 2018.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. WALSH replied that economics  do not support future drilling.                                                               
At the current  gas prices, there is no  motivation for producers                                                               
to be drilling wells.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH  asked what the  cost of  drilling a well  in Cook                                                               
Inlet is.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. WALSH answered that the average cost is $15 million.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH asked  what the cost of an mcf  of gas produced in                                                               
Cook Inlet is.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. WALSH replied that with a  cost of about $15 million per well                                                               
and about 4  bcf reserves found in a well,  the cost is somewhere                                                               
between $4.75  and $5.50  capitol plus  operating costs,  with no                                                               
rate of  return and no time  value of money. He  added that these                                                               
wells  will  produce  for  30  years; some  return  will  not  be                                                               
received for 30 years.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:53:03 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI asked  if  Mr. Walsh  was  saying that  the                                                               
state should not support an export license.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. WALSH  replied that  he is  not here to  talk about  that but                                                               
said that the  export license has been helping  the local market.                                                               
Considering  just the  utilities  and fuel  gas,  etc., the  Cook                                                               
Inlet basin is a  90 bcf per year market. That  is a small market                                                               
for any  producer and provides  little incentive to  drill wells.                                                               
No gas  is available for export,  but the export license  and LNG                                                               
plant are significant motivators for exploration and drilling.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI  asked  if   Mr.  Walsh  could  envision  a                                                               
scenario that will support the export license.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. WALSH  replied that discovery  of more gas would  support the                                                               
export license and growth in supply.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR MCGUIRE said, "or a bullet line".                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HUGGINS said an anchor  tenant is hugely valuable and the                                                               
state should make sure it is maintained.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR MCGUIRE said an industrial anchor is needed.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI said  he agrees with Senator  Huggins that a                                                               
bullet  anchor   tenant  is  needed   in  the   future.  However,                                                               
considering the  cost of  $4.75 per  mcf, it  is hard  to justify                                                               
export without finding a significant amount of gas.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:56:50 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. WALSH said the study did  determine that the anchor tenant is                                                               
important for both Cook Inlet local gas and the bullet line.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  WALSH continued  and said  meeting demand  until 2020  would                                                               
require  drilling 185  new wells;  an average  of 18.5  wells per                                                               
year. In  2012, drilling  would need  to be  ramped up  and would                                                               
increase  up to  30  wells per  year in  2020.  This scenario  is                                                               
possible  but challenging.  The cost  for 128  wells from  2001 -                                                               
2009  was approximately  $1 to  $1.2 billion.  To get  up to  185                                                               
wells, the  estimated cost  for drilling  and development  in the                                                               
coming decade is $1.9 to $2.8  billion. That is a huge investment                                                               
for the  Cook Inlet basin. The  basin is mature and  the cost per                                                               
mcf to develop  the reserves will go up.  Higher production costs                                                               
will lead to higher energy prices;  the days of cheap gas in Cook                                                               
Inlet are over.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:59:07 PM                                                                                                                    
To meet  demand with supply,  drilling must continue at  the rate                                                               
of  the  last  two  years  for  the  next  ten  years  -  and  be                                                               
successful. Immediate  and long-term  activity and  investment is                                                               
needed but  will be challenging in  a market that is  only 90 bcf                                                               
per year.  If near-term  drilling does not  keep up  with demand,                                                               
LNG  imports  will  be  required until  an  instate  solution  is                                                               
available. Contracts clearly drove the  13.6 new wells, per year,                                                               
for each of the last two  years and will be needed going forward.                                                               
He noted  that gas storage is  important and would even  out peak                                                               
demand and seasonal issues.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HUGGINS asked what storage capacity Mr. Walsh foresees.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. WALSH replied a multi-year capacity would be ideal.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  HUGGINS asked  for  a practical  estimate,  to meet  the                                                               
customer base with some margin.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:02:20 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. STARRING replied that at least  a bcf of storage is needed in                                                               
the early years  with draw capabilities of about 70  mcf per day,                                                               
at  peak. Storage  design should  meet not  only ENSTAR's  annual                                                               
volume needs and peak day  requirement needs but also Chugach and                                                               
ML&P. She noted that the study assumed perfect storage.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  WALSH  continued  speaking  about  immediate  actions.  Land                                                               
management  processes must  be streamlined.  Access  to land  for                                                               
exploration,  development, facilities  and  pipelines  will be  a                                                               
challenge. The  study has made  it clear that importing  LNG into                                                               
Cook  Inlet  is  the  only  short  term  solution,  barring  very                                                               
successful and motivated  drilling in the next  ten years. Often,                                                               
smaller independents eventually come in  if the market is not big                                                               
enough  for  big  corporations.   Challenges  exist  for  [small]                                                               
companies too, such as abandonment  of facilities. The state must                                                               
motivate development  activity in the short  term and exploration                                                               
and development in the long term.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:05:02 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR FRENCH asked what the cost  is of a load of LNG delivered                                                               
to the upper Cook Inlet.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. STARRING  replied that  she cannot  supply the  exact numbers                                                               
but bringing in  LNG in 2013 is  about $12 to $13  and then going                                                               
out, $15 to $17.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR MCGUIRE asked what the  terms of those contracts usually                                                               
look like.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS.  STARRING  said contracts  would  probably  be short-term  to                                                               
bring   gas   in  during   peak   times.   The  development   and                                                               
implementation of  storage could even  out deliveries and  gain a                                                               
better price. In the early years, the range would be $15 to $17.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR MCGUIRE said the incentives  in place in Cook Inlet have                                                               
largely  been  unsuccessful. She  asked  if  companies are  still                                                               
talking to  Ms. Starring. She  asked if  a 20 year  contract with                                                               
one  of these  companies would  incentivize them  to explore  and                                                               
develop at the rates Ms. Starring is talking about.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:08:07 PM                                                                                                                    
MS.  STARRING  replied  that  both  ENSTAR  and  Chugach  are  in                                                               
negotiations. ENSTAR  is talking about short-term  contracts, not                                                               
20 year  deals. The Legislature has  done all it can  in terms of                                                               
favorable tax  rates and  incentives. If  the contracts  that the                                                               
utilities  bring  forward  in  the next  year  are  not  approved                                                               
quickly, we go to the LNG  option very fast. Quick approval would                                                               
send some signals  to the producers and maybe 13,  15 or 20 wells                                                               
will begin. She is not sure of  the motivation for a Chevron or a                                                               
Conoco to just serve three small utilities.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR MCGUIRE said we have to build that base.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH  said if LNG  delivered to Upper Cook  Inlet (UCI)                                                               
is $12 to  $13 and the cost  of producing gas from a  new well is                                                               
$4.75  to  $5,  some  room  is  there  for  healthy  profits  for                                                               
producers. He wondered if things are not as bleak as they seem.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  MCGUIRE  said  the  committee  must  learn  more  about                                                               
pricing on LNG and the LNG  market in Asia, which is still linked                                                               
to crude. A price  of $4.75 to bring out an  mcf is expensive but                                                               
the export  permit just becomes  all that more valuable.  A long-                                                               
term contract at a higher Asian  LNG rate serving as an achor and                                                               
offsetting  the tariff  could be  a good  proposition. She  noted                                                               
that  she  is nervous  about  importing  LNG  as doing  so  could                                                               
permanently shift the market and opportunities will dwindle.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:12:08 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WAGONER asked if Cook Inlet is underexplored.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  WALSH  replied  that  Cook  Inlet  has  more  opportunities,                                                               
particularly  off  shore. He  agrees  with  DNR's statement  that                                                               
plenty of opportunity exists for  gas in Cook Inlet. The question                                                               
is, "at what cost?"                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
He clarified that the cost of  $4.75 to $5.50 includes no risk on                                                               
exploration or  development, no time  value money and no  rate of                                                               
return.  It is  a  raw number  from  the cost  per  well and  the                                                               
expected bcf discovered by well.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR MCGUIRE called an at ease from 4:13 p.m. to 4:17 p.m.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
            SB 294-SPORT FISH GUIDE LICENSES-SUNSET                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:17:51 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR MCGUIRE  announced the  next order  of business  to come                                                               
before the committee was SB 294.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MICHAEL  PAWLOWSKI, aide  to Senator  McGuire, said  that if  the                                                               
program  sunsets, professional  standards and  minimum levels  of                                                               
liability  coverage  for  sport  fish operators  and  the  guides                                                               
themselves  will   be  eliminated.   For  example,   the  current                                                               
requirements  that a  sport fish  operator have  a small  general                                                               
liability  policy and  a guide  must  be CPR  certified would  go                                                               
away. Given that  sport fishing is a visitor  industry, a minimum                                                               
level of  professional standards garnered  a lot of  support when                                                               
this legislation was first debated [HB 452].                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  MCGUIRE  said  that  while  some  people  do  not  want                                                               
regulations, looking  after the resource  and people who  come to                                                               
Alaska expecting a  safe and knowledgeable guide  is important. A                                                               
network has built up with  this licensing system and regulations:                                                               
groups meet for  training and discussing new  policies. She noted                                                               
that the committee did not  resolve the issue of possibly setting                                                               
a  different  fee for  an  out-of-state  guide license.  However,                                                               
ADF&G said it has that ability.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:21:09 PM                                                                                                                    
JENNIFER YUHAS,  legislative liaison,  Alaska Department  of Fish                                                               
and  Game (ADF&G)  said the  department has  that ability  as the                                                               
fees are not set in statute.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS asked if the  committee can be assured that ADF&G                                                               
will look at it the issue of a differential fee.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. YUHAS said ADF&G is  already looking into the issue. Seventy-                                                               
three  percent  of  the  guides   are  in-state  guides  and  the                                                               
remainder could  have a  differential fee.  The Carlson  case can                                                               
serve as a road map.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS asked about a letter of intent.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  MCGUIRE replied  that  one will  circulate through  the                                                               
committee to Senator Stevens.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WAGONER  moved to  report  SB  294 from  committee  with                                                               
individual  recommendations and  attached  fiscal note(s).  There                                                               
being no objection, the motion carried.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
                     SB 275-AQUATIC FARMING                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:22:54 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR MCGUIRE  announced the  next order  of business  to come                                                               
before the committee was SB 275.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ESTHER CHA,  aide to Senator  McGuire, said SB 275  addresses the                                                               
issue of reasonable  compensation for the removal  of wild stocks                                                               
of geoducks,  exceeding an insignificant amount,  from an aquatic                                                               
farm site. Reasonable compensation  is required because shellfish                                                               
are a  public trust resource committed  to the common use  of the                                                               
public.  Previous legislation  defined insignificant  populations                                                               
of geoducks  as less  than 2000 lbs  per acre but  did not  set a                                                               
compensation rate.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SB 275  proposes compensation to  the state  in the amount  of 50                                                               
percent of the net profits  from harvesting surplus wild geoducks                                                               
from farm  sites. SB 275 sets  the tax rate for  live geoducks at                                                               
10 percent of  the exvessel value. This figure  was determined by                                                               
using the ADF&G's formula of  providing the state with 50 percent                                                               
of the net  profits of the sales. The 10  percent compensation to                                                               
ADF&G is  on top of the  3.5 percent fisheries business  tax that                                                               
farmers have to pay. As the  price for processed geoducks is much                                                               
lower than for  live geoducks, SB 275  also sets a tax  rate of 3                                                               
percent  of  the exvessel  value  on  processed geoducks.  The  3                                                               
percent rate was  suggested by geoduck farmers  during the public                                                               
comment period on  proposed regulations as a good  faith offer to                                                               
provide some  compensation to  the state  even though  they would                                                               
lose money if they had to sell processed geoducks.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  MCGUIRE said  when the  legislature passed  the Aquatic                                                               
Farm Act  in 1984, finfish  farming was explicitly  excluded. But                                                               
the feeling  was that an  aquaculture economy in Alaska  could be                                                               
good for small communities and  a healthy shell fish mari-culture                                                               
industry  has  been  a  dream  of  some  legislators.  The  state                                                               
constitution requires  sharing resources and developing  them for                                                               
the maximum benefit of Alaskans.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:26:29 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR MCGUIRE  called an at ease  from 4:26 p.m. to  4:27 p.m.                                                               
due to technical difficulties.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:27:35 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR MCGUIRE continued and said the  idea of SB 275 is to get                                                               
the  industry moving  by fixing  reasonable challenges.  In 2004,                                                               
the Supreme Court  made it clear that these sites  could not have                                                               
significant stock  on them.  The legislature  defined significant                                                               
stock at  more than  2,000 pounds.  For sites  with more  than an                                                               
insignificant  stock, the  question is,  what is  the value.  She                                                               
commented  that she  is  in conversation  with  the governor  and                                                               
ADF&G to see if this can be handled by regulation.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
PAUL FUHS,  Sea Farms  Alaska, said when  the Supreme  Court made                                                               
its  ruling, the  Legislature had  3 weeks  left in  the session.                                                               
Without enough time to go  through the numbers, a hurried statute                                                               
was  passed saying  reasonable  compensation  would be  provided.                                                               
Coming up  with what is  reasonable has been difficult  for ADF&G                                                               
without any  guidance from the  Legislature who usually  sets tax                                                               
rates for resources. SB  275 is an attempt to do  that. On page 4                                                               
of SB 275,  "reasonable compensation" is defined.  He referred to                                                               
a calculations  worksheet and said  $3.50 per pound was  a figure                                                               
provided by ADF&G.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:30:54 PM                                                                                                                    
Referring to  the calculations worksheet,  he explained  that the                                                               
exvessel  value is  a public,  published number  representing the                                                               
value of  all fish caught  divided by  the number of  pounds each                                                               
year.  ADF&G  provided the  figure  of  $3.50  per pound  as  the                                                               
average  exvessel  price.  He summarized  the  farmer  costs  for                                                               
harvesting and  replacing wild  geoducks: A  diver is  paid $2.00                                                               
per pound.  Every geoduck taken must  be replaced at a  rate of 5                                                               
to  1. A  geoduck from  the hatchery  costs about  57 cents.  PSP                                                               
testing is about  12 cents per pound and  involves flying samples                                                               
to the Department of Environmental  Conservation (DEC). The state                                                               
raw fish  tax is about 11  cents per pound. That  leaves about 70                                                               
cents per  pound [profit].  A 50  percent net  profits tax  is 35                                                               
cents per  pound which is  10 percent  of the exvessel  price. He                                                               
noted that processed  geoducks get a much lower price  and do not                                                               
make any profit. He also noted  that the standard raw fish tax is                                                               
also paid at 3.5 percent.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. FUHS  said he has  committed to  the governor and  commits to                                                               
the  committee that  if this  issue is  resolved reasonably,  all                                                               
outstanding lawsuits will be dismissed.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
He also said  he was surprised by the United  Fisherman of Alaska                                                               
(UFA) letter. He  has talked regularly to  geoduck dive fisherman                                                               
and they did not take a  position. He said the UFA letter debates                                                               
what is "reasonable" and not the legislation itself.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HUGGINS  asked if  the economic  structure and  taxing of                                                               
geoducks and clams are different.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. FUHS  replied that  normally a  3.5 percent  raw fish  tax is                                                               
paid and  will be paid  for farmed fish  product too. Use  of the                                                               
state waters  is paid for in  addition to an annual  lease fee to                                                               
the  Department of  Natural  Resources (DNR).  This  is a  public                                                               
resource that  is owned by  everybody and geoduck  farmers should                                                               
pay more for exclusive use of those geoducks.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:35:12 PM                                                                                                                    
RODGER PAINTER, president,  Alaskan Shellfish Growers Association                                                               
(ASGA) said SB 275 has  limited applicability. Before the Supreme                                                               
Court decision,  this tax may  have been applied to  seven sites.                                                               
Afterwards,   ADF&G  adopted   very  strict   pre-leasing  survey                                                               
requirements to  ensure that  no new farm  sites would  have more                                                               
than an insignificant  amount [of geoducks]. A tax  rate equal to                                                               
the highest  tax rate the  state has  for any resource  meets the                                                               
definition  of  reasonable  compensation.  Resolving  this  issue                                                               
would allow  the industry to  move forward and contribute  to the                                                               
economy of rural Alaska.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS asked Mr. Painter to speak to the UFA letter.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. PAINTER replied that one point  in the UFA letter is that the                                                               
Supreme Court  said farm sites  with significant amount  of stock                                                               
cannot  be   issued.  Following   the  Supreme   Court  decision,                                                               
provisions were  written into law,  knowing that some  sites with                                                               
significant  stock  may  exist  and  that  is  why  the  tax  was                                                               
developed. The  UFA letter  also refers  to an  agreement between                                                               
ASGA and divers made right  after the Supreme Court decision. The                                                               
UFA letter  refers to a  provision that was not  implemented. The                                                               
Legislature  at   the  time  decided  it   should  be  reasonable                                                               
compensation rather than 100 percent as shown in the agreement.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:39:16 PM                                                                                                                    
MARK  VINCEL,  executive  director, United  Fisherman  of  Alaska                                                               
(UFA), said  the matter of SB  275 was brought to  a recent board                                                               
meeting  by representatives  of  Southeast  Alaska Regional  Dive                                                               
Fisheries  Association   (SARDFA).  The  UFA   board  unanimously                                                               
approved SARDFA's motion to oppose SB  275 on the grounds that it                                                               
is against the intent of the  Supreme Court decision that they do                                                               
not have  rights to large  amounts of standing stock  that belong                                                               
to the public. It is against  the agreement that SARDFA made with                                                               
the divers at  the time and the subsequent  regulations that were                                                               
promulgated  through the  public process  of proposed  regulation                                                               
and public comment. ADF&G codified the  tax at 21 cents per pound                                                               
on the  standing stock to  be sold  live. The amount  of geoducks                                                               
that can  be sold  live, which is  more lucrative,  has increased                                                               
dramatically due to the state's  investment in a testing facility                                                               
and  changes   in  the  testing  protocols.   The  production  of                                                               
shellfish should be increased, not  just reallocated. Rather than                                                               
a high  tax on standing stock  in places with a  lot of geoducks,                                                               
choosing locations to grow geoducks  should be incentivized. This                                                               
will increase production.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:42:42 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR MCGUIRE pointed  out that SB 275 is just  trying to wrap                                                               
up the  issue of the  few sites that were  in place prior  to the                                                               
Supreme  Court ruling  and asked  if this  lessened Mr.  Vincel's                                                               
concerns. She  pointed out that SB  275 is not a  mechanism to go                                                               
back on a  Supreme Court decision and say any  site is available,                                                               
even ones with significant stock.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. VINCEL  responded yes,  he understands  that the  sites being                                                               
discussed have  already been established  - existing  sites where                                                               
someone  wanted a  lease  on  something with  a  large amount  of                                                               
geoducks because that can be very profitable.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR MCGUIRE  said she will  continue to read the  UFA letter                                                               
but the  policy decision has been  made by the Supreme  Court and                                                               
SB 275 is  trying to comply with that decision  and deal with the                                                               
question of value. She said Section  2 of UFA's letter deals with                                                               
value and will be a part of the record.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR MCGUIRE closed public testimony and set SB 275 aside.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
           SR  10-DOMESTIC NATURAL GAS & ALT. ENERGY                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:45:38 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR MCGUIRE  announced the  next order  of business  to come                                                               
before the committee was SR 10.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
AMY SEITZ,  aide to Senator Wagoner,  said SR 10 sends  a message                                                               
to  Washington  DC that  the  Alaska  state senate  realizes  the                                                               
importance  of  producing  domestic  natural gas  to  lessen  our                                                               
dependence on foreign oil. SR 10  also sends the message that the                                                               
senate  recognizes  the   importance  of  developing  alternative                                                               
energy sometime in the future.  The third point of the resolution                                                               
is the senate's request to  have state and federal agencies start                                                               
transferring vehicles over  to those that can  eventually be used                                                               
with compressed natural gas.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WAGONER  added that any  natural gas use that  Alaska can                                                               
encourage creates more room for Alaska gas.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR MCGUIRE said  SR 10 is right on the  money. Previous use                                                               
of compressed  natural gas would  have reduced our  dependence on                                                               
foreign oil.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WAGONER wanted to say on  the record that he "stole about                                                               
half  of  this from  a  previous  resolution written  by  Senator                                                               
Dyson".                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR MCGUIRE said we should  have the best compressed natural                                                               
gas vehicles in the world.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HUGGINS  said Senator Wagoner  understated the  impact if                                                               
we really followed  through with SR 10  operationally. He thanked                                                               
Senator Wagoner for bringing SR 10 forward.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR   MCGUIRE   noted   that   our   state   Department   of                                                               
Transportation has been asked, in  the energy omnibus, to look at                                                               
this issue and lead by example.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:49:04 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI  moved to report  SR 10 from  committee with                                                               
individual recommendations and no  attached fiscal note(s). There                                                               
being no objection, the motion carried.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:50:03 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR MCGUIRE called a brief at ease.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
          SB 143-RAILBELT ENERGY & TRANSMISSION CORP.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:50:43 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR MCGUIRE  announced the  next order  of business  to come                                                               
before the committee was SB 143.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REBECCA LOGAN, chairman of board,  Chugach Electric and chairman,                                                               
Railbelt Utility Task  Force, said she is here to  support SB 143                                                               
and will let the other utilities speak.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR MCGUIRE  said every governor  in years  past, regardless                                                               
of  party,  has  failed  to bring  the  utilities  together.  Ms.                                                               
Logan's bringing groups together to communicate is impressive.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI   said  rate   regulation  is   a  concern,                                                               
particularly no regulation  after five years. He is  trying to be                                                               
open  to the  idea and  would like  to hear  how it  is going  to                                                               
protect consumers.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:52:57 PM                                                                                                                    
MS.  LOGAN said  an in-depth  discussion should  take place  at a                                                               
different time about the pros and  cons of regulation. One of the                                                               
Utility Task  Force's "must-haves"  was no regulation  of Greater                                                               
Railbelt   Energy  and   Transmission   Corporation  (GRETC).   A                                                               
compromise  was reached  with the  governor's office  three weeks                                                               
ago: five year regulation with a sunset.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MARK  JOHNSON,  general  counsel,  Chugach  Electric,  said  rate                                                               
regulation is  clearly a central issue.  He would like to  make a                                                               
presentation   and  allow   for   dialogue;  understanding   rate                                                               
regulation pertaining to GRETC is essential to SB 143.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:55:28 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR MCGUIRE told Mr. Johnson  she wants to know what options                                                               
will  be  available if  lack  of  regulation  led to  a  colossal                                                               
failure and the consumer is not protected.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI said  he is  concerned about  the provision                                                               
about  not being  able to  preclude  Independent Power  Producers                                                               
(IPP's) from  getting into  a system. He  wonders how  that works                                                               
without regulation.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. JOHNSON said more discussions and a firm answer will come.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:57:59 PM                                                                                                                    
PHILLIP OATES, city manager, Seward,  said he is present to offer                                                               
Electric  Utility's  support to  SB  143.  All of  the  utilities                                                               
together  have  better  financing  due to  more  resources,  rate                                                               
payers,  revenue stream  and partnership  with  the state.  GRETC                                                               
will help  manage the transmission  system across  all utilities,                                                               
will  accomplish  regional  economic dispatch  and  comprehensive                                                               
long-range, regional  planning. Bringing together  the particular                                                               
circumstances of 4  co-ops and 2 municipalities,  of which Seward                                                               
is one, is  complex. Seward supports the  adequate reliable, safe                                                               
and  stable  delivery  of energy  and  wholesale  electric  power                                                               
transmission.  Seward will have  full membership in this not-for-                                                               
profit  corporation along  with other  utilities and  individuals                                                               
appointed by the governor.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
5:01:39 PM                                                                                                                    
Brad  Janorschke,  general  manager, Homer  Electric  Association                                                               
(HEA)  said that  a  common misconception  is  that the  Railbelt                                                               
utilities can't  get along  and work  together. The  Bradley Lake                                                               
Hydro-Electric project is a big  success story with six utilities                                                               
working  together with  a state  agency  to build  and finance  a                                                               
project  that generates  some of  the  lowest cost  power in  the                                                               
state.  The Railbelt  utilities have  accomplished much  in price                                                               
and  reliability  and  can  choose   to  think  big  and  develop                                                               
opportunities, particularly  in renewables.  GRETC is  an omnibus                                                               
document  supported by  all utilities  and developed  by electric                                                               
utility professionals.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
The  intent of  the letter  distributed by  HEA was  to encourage                                                               
minimal  change to  the originally  agreed  upon legislation.  He                                                               
reiterated HEA's  support of GRETC,  in its original  form, which                                                               
provides the best opportunity to diversify energy sources.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
5:05:40 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  FRENCH asked  if  Mr. Janorschke  does  not support  the                                                               
current committee substitute before the committee.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. JANORSCHKE  replied that the  letter states HEA's  support of                                                               
GRETC and is trying to encourage minimal changes to it.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH  said he  agrees with Mr.  Janorschke but  the 2nd                                                               
paragraph  of HEA's  letter says  "recent amendments  and changes                                                               
being proposed  will significantly alter the  GRETC legislation".                                                               
And then it says, "the  HEA board cannot support these amendments                                                               
without a  thorough review and  consideration of the  effect they                                                               
will have".  Senator French said  that it looks like HEA does not                                                               
support the committee substitute.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. JANORSCHKE replied that HEA did  agree to one change from the                                                               
original  GRETC  legislation  pertaining to  RCA  regulation.  He                                                               
knows  further  changes  have been  requested  to  AS  42.50.170,                                                               
regarding the  authority for oil and  gas leases. One of  the key                                                               
components of SB  143 that the Task Force agreed  to was allowing                                                               
GRETC to pursue that. He hopes the clause will remain in SB 143.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
5:08:51 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR MCGUIRE asked Mr. Janorschke  what he opposes in Version                                                               
S that is before the committee.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. JANORSCHKE replied  that HEA's request is  that the authority                                                               
for oil and gas leases remain in the GRETC legislation.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  MCGUIRE confirmed  that this  is Mr.  Janorschke's only                                                               
"hang up".                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. JANORSCHKE replied, "affirmative".                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  MCGUIRE  asked Mr.  Janorschke  for  a letter  to  that                                                               
effect.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. JANORSCHKE replied that he will provide such a letter.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
PETER BRUSHELL,  director, Matanuska Electric  Association (MEA),                                                               
said Bradley Lake is a  success story and is operated effectively                                                               
without RCA. The  Joint Utility Task Force argued  and things got                                                               
heated but  the Task  Force also realized  and admitted  not much                                                               
could be accomplished without working together.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
5:12:05 PM                                                                                                                    
The state's support and leadership  is also needed. Over the past                                                               
year,  the  Task  Force has  built  compromise,  examination  and                                                               
cooperation  with  the  state.  The  document  presented  to  the                                                               
Legislature includes the best ideas  and intentions for meeting a                                                               
crisis. He  noted that he has  never heard what the  cost will be                                                               
to MEA commercial  and residential consumers if a  bullet line or                                                               
a main line with a spur is built.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
5:15:22 PM                                                                                                                    
CAITLIN HIGGINS,  executive director, of the  Alaska Conservation                                                               
Alliance (ACA), encouraged statutory  language requiring GRETC to                                                               
evaluate   and   enact   cost-effective   conservation   in   the                                                               
development  of its  Integrated  Resource  Plan (IRP).  Renewable                                                               
energy with a  stable long-term price is the  region's best long-                                                               
term  economic interest.  The ACA  supports the  committee's goal                                                               
that  Alaska should  generate at  least 50  percent of  its power                                                               
from  renewables. GRETC's  statutory language  could support  the                                                               
goal  as part  of the  new  utilities IRP.  ACA supports  ongoing                                                               
regulatory and financial  oversight of GRETC, with  no sunset, as                                                               
it  ensures that  individual rate  payers, business  and industry                                                               
have  access to  reliable,  safe utility  services. Rate  payers'                                                               
voices are an  essential aspect of utility  governance; the board                                                               
of  directors of  the new  utility should  include a  significant                                                               
portion of citizen representatives  or a separate citizen utility                                                               
board    should   overseeing    utilities   activities.    Public                                                               
representation  and  oversight should  be  a  meaningful part  of                                                               
GRETC.  So  that ACA  may  support  SB  143, ACA  encourages  the                                                               
committee  to   consider  language   to  address   financial  and                                                               
regulatory oversight, public input and energy efficiency.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
5:18:58 PM                                                                                                                    
RICK  SCHIKORA, treasurer,  Golden  Valley Electric  Association,                                                               
said Golden Valley represents 43,000  members in the Interior and                                                               
has participated  in the  GRETC task force  since April  2009. SB
143 would allow at least 4 of  the 6 Railbelt utilities to form a                                                               
company  to  provide  wholesale   power  to  Railbelt  utilities.                                                               
Participation  would be  voluntary  and rates  for  power out  of                                                               
those  projects would  be on  a non-discriminatory  basis between                                                               
those participants. GRETC is designed  to be a wholesale electric                                                               
company  providing electricity  and  other  services to  Railbelt                                                               
utilities, all of whom, except  the city of Seward, are regulated                                                               
by the RCA. Due to the  rate payer protections built in the GRETC                                                               
legislation, GRETC should  not be subjected to  RCA regulation. A                                                               
compromise of five years of  regulation has been reached with the                                                               
governor. The  board members of  GRETC are either elected  by the                                                               
ratepayers of  member utilities  or appointed  by those  who are.                                                               
All six  Railbelt utilities worked  on SB 143 and  all provisions                                                               
were agreed  to by representatives  of the governor's  office and                                                               
Alaska Energy Authority  (AEA). SB 143 works and  allows GRETC to                                                               
make electricity by people who know how to do it.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
5:22:26 PM                                                                                                                    
RICH  WILSON, Alaska  Ratepayers, said  his group  is made  up of                                                               
grassroots  ratepayers from  Fairbanks down  through Southcentral                                                               
with the  goal of pursuing  affordable and predictable  rates. SB
143 is a  way to achieve regional cooperation  in an organization                                                               
that can get the job done.  Ratepayers should be given a right to                                                               
participate  in the  process.  Long-term  benefits to  ratepayers                                                               
must include  projects that are  too big  for any one  utility in                                                               
the Railbelt.  The financial cost  and size of solutions  such as                                                               
Susitna   or  Chakachamna   hydro-facility  require   a  regional                                                               
solution.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
5:25:28 PM                                                                                                                    
TOM LAKOSH,  representing himself, said utilities  cooperation is                                                               
needed,   not  only   to  plan   and   purchase  generation   and                                                               
transmission, but  to have a  regional distribution  utility. The                                                               
language allows certain assets to  be withheld from the group and                                                               
does  not  ensure  proper  control of  the  grid  to  incorporate                                                               
intermittent  renewables. To  get to  the renewable  standard set                                                               
out  in policy,  a single  dispatch utility  for wholesale  power                                                               
from Fairbanks  to Homer  is needed. The  ability to  put certain                                                               
assets  into the  GRETC  coffer seems  suspicious  in that  aging                                                               
facilities with outstanding  debt are most likely to  be paid off                                                               
by GRETC where the most  efficient and valuable to the individual                                                               
utility  will be  withheld possibly  even  from distribution  and                                                               
dispatch.  Policies for  conservation and  renewables need  to be                                                               
clearly stated for  GRETC. A unified utility should  not only buy                                                               
new generation  but effectively conserve throughout  the Railbelt                                                               
and plan for proper dispatch for intermittent renewables.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
5:28:38 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR  MCGUIRE   closed  public  testimony  and   thanked  all                                                               
utilities that  testified. She said she  would try to get  SB 143                                                               
out as  soon as  possible. A  meeting will  be scheduled  to talk                                                               
about the issue of regulation.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
5:28:57 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR MCGUIRE, seeing no further business to come before the                                                                 
committee, adjourned the meeting at 5:28 p.m.                                                                                   

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